The official manual transmission swap - 05/01/0911:10 PM
Ever since i did the swap almost a year ago i got tons of email here
and on youtube regarding this swap.I have been a bit lazy writing this
write-up and it's a bit more difficult for me since i'm french speaking
and i hope you wont count my typing mistake but here it is finaly lol.
The official manual transmission swap - 05/01/0911:20 PM
Introduction
Few years ago i had the opportunity to drive and
later own black&flames's 89 manual box.I still can remember the
thrill of driving that car and how excited i was to drop the clutch for
the first time.
Years has passed and i finaly got back that
little thrill that i missed so much by doing the swap to my daily driver
04crown vic. It sure bring it's part of challenge but it really worth each and every hour and money put in that project.
Finaly
i would like to thank Jeremy (black&flames) for giving me such
oportunities and all of you who have done this swap and have been very
generous with your info and time
quickcrownvic-quickvic30-Funkrider-Metroplex-drock96marquis
Thank you
This
write-up is not an exact procedure on how to do it but should be used
as a guide.I do not want to be held responsiblefor any missunderstood or
mistake during the swap. This swap should be done by an experienced mechanic with an appropriate facility.
Transmission
I
have used a tremec tr-3650 transmission found in any 01/04 mustang.This
transmission will handle better the hp/tq than the t-5 or t-45 found in
older model but has it's own problem too. The second gear syncro is
prone to be diffucult to engage when the temperature is cold
outside.Ford has made an updated part to resolve that problem and most
04 tremec should not have that problem.That transmission is rated at
360lb/tq and should be fine in most application but if you need
something above that i would recomended an up-dated version who can
support up to 495lb/tq (see my links at the end)
Clutch/ flywhell
For
the clutch/pressure plate i went with centerforce.It is a 10 spline
unit who was made for the mustang cobra.It require a bit more effort to
depress the clutch but it really hold the power. The unit is quite pricey but you cant really so shop wisely.
The flywhell is a 6 holes billet stell 1:1 ASI approved. I have been recomemded to NOT use a billet aluminum for this application.
Clutch pedal assembly.
I
went with the 01/04 mustang brake clutch pedal assembly as a starting
point.The mustang cable clutch assembly cannot be used on the crown vic
as is so it had to be modified to fit my existing brake pedal.
You will need to grind off the clutch pedal shaft off the mustang assembly to later weld it to the crown vic assembly. Pay attention to the cleareance with the pcm when you will weld the shaft. Mine has abouth 1/4 inche in betewen.
The clutch pedal itself has to be modified. You have to drill a hole approximatly one inch lower that the original position and make it square with a file. Do not mess up with that step as is the square hole is too large the pedal will spin on the shaft.
This
will make the pedal still sit lower that the two other pedal but since
the fuse box is right up there you dont really have the choice. It may
look weird but the feeling when you press the clutch isn't.
Since
i welded the clutch shaft there is no more space for the brake light
switch who was originaly mounted below the abs switch so you will have
to mount your own on/off switch ditectly below the shaft or at any other
convinient place.
The electric harness for the automatic is
obviously no longer needed. The only wire who should remain from this
harness are the one for the oxygene and vss sensors.You wil have to run 2
extra wire for the reverse light.
A pcm reprogramation (aka a tune)is mandatory for this swap. I highly recomemded lonnie at blue oval chip. he is specialized in umique swap. (see links at the end)
Crossmember
The
crossmember on any 03+ model has to be modified in order to clear the
taill of the transmission.The top has to be cut as well as the front of
it. Even the lip at the bottom end of the transmission needs to be remoove This step is quite time consuming since you will have to make sure there is absolutly no contact in betewen the two parts. A gap of 1/4 betewen the crossmember and transmission is required since everything will move during driving condition.
Drive shaft
You need to change the 36 spline yoke for a 28 sline yoke.
A 5/8 lenght drive shaft spacer must be used since the new transmision is shorter than the 4r70w/4r75w. Most
aftermarket compagnies makes them for the mustang but be aware that
they used smaller pinion flange so it will not fit the crown vic's one. It's either you get one custom made at the local machine shop or you swap the pinion flange and joint for the mustang one.
Shifter
A rectangle of 3 by 5 inches has to be cut approximatly 3 inches from the abs module for the shifter location. You
will also have to trim a bit of the reinforcement underneath the tunel
at the bottom of the rectangle to again clear the transmission.
I
have used a hurst short throw shifter.The base is for obviously the
tremec but the shifter itself is for the older style of mustang (the fox
years). It is close from the dash but there is plenty of space for your hand.
parts list
Tremec tr-3650 01/04 mustang center force clutch/pressure plate Flywheel 6 bolts Flywheel bolts F6ZZ6379AA clutch lever XR3Z7515AA clutch cable XR3Z7535CA Clutch bearing F7ZZ7548AA pilot bearing F6ZZ7600A Dust shield F6ZZ7513AA Yoke 28 spline E9TZ4841A
I will up-date this write with your comments and help in order to make it as complete as possible.
If you need more info or have any question i will be glad to answer them all. you can pm me or write me at p71c1@yahoo.ca
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/01/0911:57 PM
Is there a way to include how you wired the trans in and also the
clutch position sensor for the pedal assembly so that it starts like a
true manual car? That would be super helpful.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/02/0912:10 AM
there is nothing to be wired except the two wire fot the back uo light. there is no clutch position sensor so yes the car can start even if the clutch is not depress..it,s just a matter of habit lol i'm updating abouth every 15 min the page so stay tuned
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/03/0908:38 PM
did you have any trouble with the brake lights? i have a 93 that i
out a t-45 5 speed in and my brake lights worked but when we wired up a
switch for the started, now my brake lights dont work. is it a wire on
the tranny that is tied into that also because i dont have anything
hooked up to the tranny and i have power to the brake light switch? pm
me and let me know
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/04/0910:58 PM
Originally Posted By: 2004_p71
Introduction
Few
years ago i had the opportunity to drive and later own
black&flames's 89 manual box.I still can remember the thrill of
driving that car and how excited i was to drop the clutch for the first
time.
Years has passed and i finaly got back that little thrill
that i missed so much by doing the swap to my daily driver 04crown vic. It sure bring it's part of challenge but it really worth each and every hour and money put in that project.
Finaly
i would like to thank Jeremy (black&flames) for giving me such
oportunities and all of you who have done this swap and have been very
generous with your info and time
quickcrownvic-quickvic30-Funkrider-Metroplex-drock96marquis
Thank you
The bold font applies to my 1993 Crown Victoria LX
This
write-up is not an exact procedure on how to do it but should be used
as a guide.I do not want to be held responsiblefor any missunderstood or
mistake during the swap. This swap should be done by an experienced mechanic with an appropriate facility.
Transmission
I
have used a tremec tr-3650 transmission found in any 01/04 mustang.This
transmission will handle better the hp/tq than the t-5 or t-45 found in
older model but has it's own problem too. The second gear syncro is
prone to be diffucult to engage when the temperature is cold
outside.Ford has made an updated part to resolve that problem and most
04 tremec should not have that problem.That transmission is rated at
360lb/tq and should be fine in most application but if you need
something above that i would recomended an up-dated version who can
support up to 495lb/tq (see my links at the end)
I
used a T45 from a 1996 Mustang.Borg Warner T-45 – 5 speed manual
transmission has an aluminum alloy gear case, tail housing and bell
housing.
The T45 is used only behind the 4.6L Mustangs from 1996
to 1999. Tremec replaced the T-45 with the Tremec 3650 in 2000. It has
single rail gear selector and carbon lined steel synchronizer rings.
The
T-45 installed in the 1996-1998 GT Mustangs is different than the Cobra
Mustangs. The transmission mount position and speedo gear are the main
differences.
The Mustang Cobra T-45 has a 7 tooth speedo gear. The Mustang GT T45 has an 8 tooth speedo gear
In 1999 all T-45's were changed to the Cobra specs.
The T45 case casting number is “1381”
Standard gear ratios on the Borg Warner T45 and Tremec T45:
The Mustang T45 has an input torque rating of 325 ft-lb
Clutch/ flywhell
For
the clutch/pressure plate i went with centerforce.It is a 10 spline
unit who was made for the mustang cobra.It require a bit more effort to
depress the clutch but it really hold the power. The unit is quite pricey but you cant really so shop wisely.
The flywhell is a 6 holes billet stell 1:1 ASI approved. I have been recomemded to NOT use a billet aluminum for this application.
I
started to go witha King Cobra clutch but found a sweet deal on a new
take-out. The flywheel was nodular iron witha stock factory clutch.
Clutch pedal assembly.
I
went with the 01/04 mustang brake clutch pedal assembly as a starting
point.The mustang cable clutch assembly cannot be used on the crown vic
as is so it had to be modified to fit my existing brake pedal.
I
tried using the Mustang pedal assembly with the backplate from the
Crown Vic welded onto it. Too much time and energy wasted try to get
everthing to line up.
You will need to grind off the clutch pedal shaft off the mustang assembly to later weld it to the crown vic assembly. Pay attention to the cleareance with the pcm when you will weld the shaft. Mine has abouth 1/4 inche in betewen.
This is the same thing I did.
The clutch pedal itself has to be modified. You have to drill a hole approximatly one inch lower that the original position and make it square with a file. Do not mess up with that step as is the square hole is too large the pedal will spin on the shaft.
I did NOT do this.
This
will make the pedal still sit lower that the two other pedal but since
the fuse box is right up there you dont really have the choice. It may
look weird but the feeling when you press the clutch isn't.
Since
i welded the clutch shaft there is no more space for the brake light
switch who was originaly mounted below the abs switch so you will have
to mount your own on/off switch ditectly below the shaft or at any other
convinient place.
I cut and welded the brake and clutch
pedal to sit where I wanted it. Some people will not cut these and no
shop will do it either because of liability issuses.
The
electric harness for the automatic is obviously no longer needed. The
only wire who should remain from this harness are the one for the
oxygene and vss sensors.You wil have to run 2 extra wire for the reverse
light.
A pcm reprogramation (aka a tune)is mandatory for this swap. I highly recomemded lonnie at blue oval chip. he is specialized in umique swap. (see links at the end)
I have the OBD1 system and did NOT need a reprogramming.
Crossmember
The
crossmember on any 03+ model has to be modified in order to clear the
taill of the transmission.The top has to be cut as well as the front of
it. Even the lip at the bottom end of the transmission needs to be remoove This step is quite time consuming since you will have to make sure there is absolutly no contact in betewen the two parts. A gap of 1/4 betewen the crossmember and transmission is required since everything will move during driving condition.
I did not have to do any of this.
Drive shaft
You need to change the 36 spline yoke for a 28 sline yoke.
A 5/8 lenght drive shaft spacer must be used since the new transmision is shorter than the 4r70w/4r75w. Most
aftermarket compagnies makes them for the mustang but be aware that
they used smaller pinion flange so it will not fit the crown vic's one. It's either you get one custom made at the local machine shop or you swap the pinion flange and joint for the mustang one.
If you have an LX model you will not need the spacer.
Shifter
A rectangle of 3 by 5 inches has to be cut approximatly 3 inches from the abs module for the shifter location. You
will also have to trim a bit of the reinforcement underneath the tunel
at the bottom of the rectangle to again clear the transmission.
I
have used a hurst short throw shifter.The base is for obviously the
tremec but the shifter itself is for the older style of mustang (the fox
years). It is close from the dash but there is plenty of space for your hand.
I used a stock shifter for a short period but found a Hurst stick that I liked. I swapped stick and now have more room.
parts list
Tremec tr-3650 01/04 mustang center force clutch/pressure plate Flywheel 6 bolts Flywheel bolts F6ZZ6379AA clutch lever XR3Z7515AA clutch cable XR3Z7535CA Clutch bearing F7ZZ7548AA pilot bearing F6ZZ7600A Dust shield F6ZZ7513AA Yoke 28 spline E9TZ4841A
I will up-date this write with your comments and help in order to make it as complete as possible.
If you need more info or have any question i will be glad to answer them all. you can pm me or write me at p71c1@yahoo.ca
Good luck with this swap. All
the guys mentioned were my inspiration to get this done and I have had
more fun, positive comments and questions than you can imagine.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/12/0904:05 AM
you can get some rebuilt unit off ebay for around 800$ or some beefy
unit as i bought for 1400$ and the are good for up to 495lbtq 500hp
i bought mine from manstrans or something like that ...there are few seller on ebay who sell these. Just make sure they are the up dated version with the second gear syncro fixed as should be any o4 transmission
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/25/0903:19 PM
Thanks, I took all my 5spd videos down from youtube. I grew very
tired of people asking me 15 times a week how to do this swap and how
much it cost etc.
It would be very easy to rig up a clutch safety
switch using the park/neutral pins in the gear range selector wiring.
To get it to start you just jump the two pins that the range selector
joins in P or N.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/29/0912:00 PM
You need a 96-98 tailshaft housing from a GT. You will also need to
elongate the bolt holes in the cross member mount area and the trans
mount as well. An aftermarket trans mont will not work either you have
to go factory and if the police models are different it needs to be the
police mount. Just speaking from experience. The speed sensor should
work.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/29/0902:31 PM
Originally Posted By: BennyB747
Originally Posted By: Spartan
You need a 96-98 tailshaft housing from a GT.
Why do I need a different tail shaft housing? Aren't the 99 and up GT and Cobra trans the same ones?
Yes
they are the same which is why you need a 96-98 GT housing. Those are
the correct mount location. Cobra and 99+ GT are too far back. You can
still get 96-98 tailhousings from the ford new.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/29/0903:18 PM
Speedo gear locations are the same. If it has gears on the tailshaft
you are OK. I didn't think panthers were electronic VSS until 2003? A
T3650 is a different animal. It has no other tailshaft housing that I
know of and you are stuck with the mount further back. I do not know
why the housing swap is not mentined but it is accurate because I did
it; from a 98 cobra to a 98 GT.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/29/0903:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Speedo
gear locations are the same. If it has gears on the tailshaft you are
OK. I didn't think panthers were electronic VSS until 2003? A T3650 is
a different animal. It has no other tailshaft housing that I know of
and you are stuck with the mount further back. I do not know why the
housing swap is not mentined but it is accurate because I did it; from a
98 cobra to a 98 GT.
There is no more vss sensor
since the 03+ model and from what i can remember there is no location to
put a vss sensor but since i didnt have to deal whith this issue i
didnt really pay attention. The tr-3650 do not offer other mount location as the tko 500 do. It
is a bit tricky with 03+ car since the crossmember is pressed fit in
the crossmember pocked on the frame.It's a lot easier with 02- car since
the crossmember is very easy to modify compare to the 03+
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/30/0912:30 PM
Originally Posted By: AODE
whats your next mod?
4.6 trickflow heads and intake, with cams
A 5.4 n/a for may/june (just in time for stap) and if the budget is good enought ported heads and cams from nickmickey. as i alway say no replacement for displacement
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 09/30/0902:16 PM
Your guys are going to dow the long haul down to st thomas next year,
thats awesome i'll see you there.I may be doing the exact same swap as
you with my 03.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/01/0901:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Markilla
Your
guys are going to dow the long haul down to st thomas next year, thats
awesome i'll see you there.I may be doing the exact same swap as you
with my 03.
Of course i would not miss that even for anything... since it might be the last one . if you need more info i'll be very happy to help you with your up-coming project
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/04/0912:20 PM
That is an excellent writ up. Just wondering what the cost and time was on your build? I really want to do it to my 1999 vic. But time and money is an issue. lol.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/04/0903:04 PM
Originally Posted By: brownpirocket
That is an excellent writ up. Just wondering what the cost and time was on your build? I really want to do it to my 1999 vic. But time and money is an issue. lol.
Thanks for your nice comments. I
have put 3000$ on my project but you always can do it cheaper than
that if you are not in a hurry and shop wisely.I did it in a month but
it can be done in a week end if you have all the parts ready.
If time and money is an issue i would suggest you to wait till it's not an issue anymore.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/04/0903:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Markilla
Your
guys are going to dow the long haul down to st thomas next year, thats
awesome i'll see you there.I may be doing the exact same swap as you
with my 03.
Werent you there at st-thomas last year i tought i have seen your car overthere....
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/12/0907:17 PM
Hey there awesome write up lots of good info.
Im working on
swaping a T-5 into my 93 CV P71. I was wondering if you might know what
flywheel and clutch I will need to purchase or possibly where I could
find this info. Also will the P71 drive shaft work with the t-5 or will
I need the spacer?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 10/13/0909:37 PM
Yeah, not sure if i'm going to be doing the swap debating on buying a
wrecked 04 gt i found, can't really aford it unless i find a buyer for
the motor.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/25/1011:00 PM
hi is there any way u can explain how u modified the cross member to
get the trans to fit ? what exactly did you have to do and would u sell a
modified peddal assembly or know someone who would be willing to make
and sell one
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/26/1005:55 PM
You'll have to trim a little bit of the cross member so the trans
slips over it..! Don't worry about this issue, you'll understand while
at it..! As for the pedals, ain't much difficult, you take your Crown
vic brake pedal out of it. Then get yourself a mustang pedal kit, get
the clutch pedal tube out of it, then weld it over your crown vic assy,
then you're mostly all set..!
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/26/1011:27 PM
Originally Posted By: thejsx1
You'll
have to trim a little bit of the cross member so the trans slips over
it..! Don't worry about this issue, you'll understand while at it..! As
for the pedals, ain't much difficult, you take your Crown vic brake
pedal out of it. Then get yourself a mustang pedal kit, get the clutch
pedal tube out of it, then weld it over your crown vic assy, then you're
mostly all set..!
pas si difficile lol t'as quand même fait compliqué pour rien lol. (inside joke for jsx)
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/10/1007:07 AM
I'm getting ready to buy a new shifter for my T45 swap, and had a question.
Have
you guys had any problems with the shifter hitting the dash? I was
wondering if I need to buy a special shifter, also I'm really tall and I
think a short throw might be uncomfortable to use.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/03/1010:58 AM
It involve pertty much the same parts and work.check my write-up on this if you didnt alredy did. When performing that kind of swap you dont want to cut corner on parts . If
you are running on a tight budget you may want to wait a liitle more
because that kind of swap is anything but cheap unless you get the kit
that one of the guy is or was selling here for less than 1000$
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/03/1011:34 AM
When I meant by budget it was simply on the transmission choice.
T-45s are plentiful at the local yard. TR-3650s, not so much. The
TR-3650 could easily double, triple in some cases, the cost of this
swap.
I'm very lucky at the fact that within 15 miles of me
there are several salvage yards that I can visit any day of the week. A
few Ford specific yards and one ALL MUSTANG.
I'd like to go an
OEM route with this swap to keep costs low as well. So pretty much
everything off a late 90s Mustang is what I'm looking for. Of course a
pilot bearing, clutch bearing, clutch kit, and a Hurst shifter will all
be purchased new. I can get these items (except the shifter - only OEM
spec parts) at a decent price as I have a friend who gives me wholesale
prices on all my car parts.
I want to use the clutch from a late
'90s Mustang as well and see if I can have a friend weld it up like
you've done on your car.
Have no clue what to do with the crossmember. Any insight on this for our cars?
Tune? Is Lonnie the only one available for this service? What happens if I don't get a tune?
From
what I gather I most likely won't have to do anything to my drive shaft
other than change to the 28 spline, though it already may be. Can
someone confirm that? If not, then I would need the spacer, correct?
Right now, my main concerns are the clutch, the crossmember and the tune. Everything else I'm certain I've understood.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/04/1001:09 PM
Theses cars are heavy and requires strong parts to make them moove. The t-45 make the job on a car like a mustang but was never intended to be use in such heavy cars. Acording
to a reputable local transmisson shop even the stock tr-3650 is
borderline in term of durability when it comes to push the car to it's
limit so I dont want to know how a used probably beat-up t45 would last.
I
know only one person here who put a t-45 on a 03+ car and it's
funkrider but unfortunatly he didnt keep the car long enought to know
how long it would last.
the crossmember on 03+ car cant be
modified as easily as the 02- that why it's a bit tricky as for your
application i cant tell you since i didnt do it on 02- cars.
the tune is mandatory other wise you car will run like crap big time. I refer to lonnie because he is a sponsor here on the site and made many manual transmission tune for member heres.
dont
let the tranmission be the weak link in your drivetrain because you
will have to replace it sooner than expected and it will cost youmore at
the end garantee.
My first stock tr-3650 paid 900$ remanufactured lasted a year. My second tr-3650 can hold up to 495 hp/tq but was cheaper than paying for two transmission.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/05/1012:42 AM
So my Question to you 2004_P71 is this, I'm bolting my TR3650 to my
Stock NPI motor, will it be fine until i get the 5.4 done? because I'm
sure by then the 5.4 will make more than stock 350ft-lbs and more than
likely very close to, if not more than, 490ft-lbs.
Also, I'm doing this swap in a Pre 03 car. Is it pretty much the same with the pedal set up?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/05/1002:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Bondfreak13
So
my Question to you 2004_P71 is this, I'm bolting my TR3650 to my Stock
NPI motor, will it be fine until i get the 5.4 done? because I'm sure by
then the 5.4 will make more than stock 350ft-lbs and more than likely
very close to, if not more than, 490ft-lbs.
Also, I'm doing this swap in a Pre 03 car. Is it pretty much the same with the pedal set up?
A
stock tr-3650 will be fine with most stock application as long as you
dont beat the car with slicks at the track every weekend.
If you
are going to play around the 490 lb/tq mark I would sugess you tolook
forother option than tr-3650 even the up-graded version like mine and
get a tko 500/600.
According to quickcrownvic theses transmission
could drive a dumptruck!! The donwside from few mustang local guy who
has the tko is that they are rought like hell and for a daily driver
it,s far from being the greatest.
My transmission is rated at 495
hp/lb tq and I would still not play around theses numbers.It may holds
that much but with the weight of the car you have to lower the rating
numbers.
You may want to contact americanpowertrain and see what they have to offer? They
have lot of up-grades for the tr-3650 if it's the one you really want.
Mine is 10 spline but they offer the same with 26 spline and lot more
other option that cant remember.
If I were you I would wait till I get the funds for the transmission you really want. Because It involve more than the transmission itself. Mounts are different output shaft have different numbers of spline so clutch and pressure plate cant be swapped...
as for the pedal set-up it should not be different. If you are not too hurry mine will be for sale soon.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/05/1004:40 PM
Would using a 99 mustang GT 5 speed ECM work?
I was
thinking about just swapping the ECM to fix the computer issue, I want
to tune it but I have some other mods to do first that won't be done any
time soon.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/06/1012:45 AM
Originally Posted By: Grandpacruiser
Would using a 99 mustang GT 5 speed ECM work?
I
was thinking about just swapping the ECM to fix the computer issue, I
want to tune it but I have some other mods to do first that won't be
done any time soon.
No. that won't work unless you feel like rewiring a whole bunch.
best bet is to get a handheld tuner that you can get new tunes for later.
Originally Posted By: Bondfreak13
So
my Question to you 2004_P71 is this, I'm bolting my TR3650 to my Stock
NPI motor, will it be fine until i get the 5.4 done? because I'm sure by
then the 5.4 will make more than stock 350ft-lbs and more than likely
very close to, if not more than, 490ft-lbs.
Also, I'm doing this swap in a Pre 03 car. Is it pretty much the same with the pedal set up?
The
only difference between the 4.6 & 5.4 that would affect the trans
is the # of bolt holes in the crank, either 6 or 8-the flywheel needs to
match. My '99 has a 6 bolt crank and I *think* all 5.4's have 8.
As far as pedals go, I copied 4K#FE. His write-up on pedals is somewhere in his thread in the box archive found here.
I did have to reinforce the pedal assembly and I added a 1/8" plate
between it and the firewall that extends to where the cable comes
through because the firewall is pretty weak.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/14/1011:01 PM
ok so my brother asked me the other day if we can do a swap on his
car...he has a 93 cvpi...will this swap be easier to do or just as time
consuming..is there anything that i need to know other then what has
been talked about here...if someone can PM me due to the fact i rarely
every check this anymore due to my work schedule..
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/01/1101:41 AM
Bumping this from the dead instead of making a new thread.
I'm
about to begin a 3650 swap with my '05 CVPI. I'm a little concerned
about the throttle by wire system/tune/etc without the stock auto.
Anyone seen any '05+ manual swaps done?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/01/1105:25 AM
to cvn
wow it,s been a while.
In
answer to your question,you dont have to worry abouth anything with a
tune.<contact lonnie at blue oval chip he is a sponsor here <he is
the one who did all my tunes the last couple years
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/01/1112:12 PM
Been lurking for quite a while, just finally decided to post up since
the nice automatic finally decided to bite the dust yesterday with
114K.
I do have a brand new XCAL2 I bought a few months back. Contacted Lonnie last night, does he sell tunes without programmers?
I'm
pretty excited to get started on the project, just need to round all
the parts up first. I found a local '06 3650 with 10K on it for an
extremely good deal, but then later read about the issues I would run
into with the hydraulic clutch/shifter/completely different driveshaft.
Also have a lead on a local '01 3650 with 25K on it, which seems like
the winner. Haven't decided yet if I want to swap over to a civilian
driveshaft, or try and find/make a spacer. Also haven't decided which
route to go for a shifter. How do you like the positioning of yours? I
was going to try and find a long-ish handle, because I definitely don't
want something right off the floor.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/01/1101:07 PM
Anyone know if the '05+ flywheel/clutch setup will work on the older
'02 cable style 3650? I realize the 05+ are hydraulic throw out
bearings, but I don't see why the actual 10 spline disc/pressure-plate
with matched 6 bolt flywheel wouldn't physically work if I used the '02
style throw out bearing/cable. Basically I am still wanting to buy the
clutch setup from the guy with the '06, as it is a great deal and very
low mileage.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/01/1103:51 PM
Originally Posted By: coz
Been
lurking for quite a while, just finally decided to post up since the
nice automatic finally decided to bite the dust yesterday with 114K.
I do have a brand new XCAL2 I bought a few months back. Contacted Lonnie last night, does he sell tunes without programmers?
I'm
pretty excited to get started on the project, just need to round all
the parts up first. I found a local '06 3650 with 10K on it for an
extremely good deal, but then later read about the issues I would run
into with the hydraulic clutch/shifter/completely different driveshaft.
Also have a lead on a local '01 3650 with 25K on it, which seems like
the winner. Haven't decided yet if I want to swap over to a civilian
driveshaft, or try and find/make a spacer. Also haven't decided which
route to go for a shifter. How do you like the positioning of yours? I
was going to try and find a long-ish handle, because I definitely don't
want something right off the floor.
Lonnie will
sell you a tune according to your need if you have bought a programmer
from him oterwise if the programmer is comming from someone else he may
not be able to program it...that is something you better check with him
in this case.
AS for the 05+ tr3650 i knew they were hydraulic so i didnt really bother trying to convert them to cable clutch system. No
matter whic tr3650 you choose you will have to deal with different
drive shaft yoke but getting the mustang ones and swap it on your crown
vic drive shaft,
I'massuming that you saw funkrider write up
because he used a very short shifter My shifter is a hurst short throw
base with a hurst handle for the fox mustangs and I really like it..you
dont need anything longer to drive the car.
if you are planning
on only few bolts on with your car the stock tremec will hold fine with a
good clutch but if you want to go wild on mods and drag race every week
end forget abouth it and step up to an up-graded unit with beefier
syncros and forks.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/02/1101:07 AM
Got a hold of Lonnie, he'll be doing my tune.
I passed up on
the steal for the $300 10K '06 tranny. I am going to still pick up the
'06 clutch/flywheel setup for $50, since it only has 10K on it. This is
a low budget project, but it would have ended up costing more with the
newer tranny due to the non-slip yoke style driveshaft the '05+ have,
the clutch hydraulics, and the expensive remote shifters.
I'm
picking up the '01 3650 with 25K on it (hopefully the guy is right that
it's a 3650, I'll have to double check) this Friday for $400 including a
short shifter base. Once tax money comes the tune/shifter handle/misc
bolts/driveshaft yoke will be purchased and then I'll try and mock up
whatever clutch pedal I can find. It'll all be swapped in a 3 weeks
from now when I have a week off.
I'll take some pictures to contribute another perspective on a "how to".
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/02/1101:38 AM
The standard steeda 99-04 driveshaft spacer won't work with the p71
driveshaft/rear end will it? I thought I read somewhere our bolt pattern
was different?
Anyone have a source for one? I might just grab a civilian shaft.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/02/1103:03 PM
Originally Posted By: coz
The
standard steeda 99-04 driveshaft spacer won't work with the p71
driveshaft/rear end will it? I thought I read somewhere our bolt pattern
was different?
Anyone have a source for one? I might just grab a civilian shaft.
forget abouth the spacer i didnt used it on mine and no the ones from steeda wont work. I made mine of a pinion flange and works like a charm but it wsa installed on another car
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/03/1110:37 PM
i did it on my 2005 the swap orded a shaft form dynotech so its
balenced corectly and used a 2002-2004 tr3650 a sachs steel flywheel
form rock auto and center force clutch and welded the cable clutch dont
use hydrulic! i bought a willwood set up and forget that! cable is so
much easier
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/04/1106:23 AM
Originally Posted By: needforspeed1060
i
did it on my 2005 the swap orded a shaft form dynotech so its balenced
corectly and used a 2002-2004 tr3650 a sachs steel flywheel form rock
auto and center force clutch and welded the cable clutch dont use
hydrulic! i bought a willwood set up and forget that! cable is so much
easier
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/10/1108:48 PM
So what you're saying is you ended up using no spacer on the rear of
the driveshaft at all? The stock CVPI alum shaft is engaged in the 3650
enough? I was wondering if this was the case, somewhere I read 3650s
are barely longer than T45s.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/11/1106:36 AM
Originally Posted By: coz
So
what you're saying is you ended up using no spacer on the rear of the
driveshaft at all? The stock CVPI alum shaft is engaged in the 3650
enough? I was wondering if this was the case, somewhere I read 3650s
are barely longer than T45s.
the difference in lenght is not enought to need the spacer. i'll look to my speck to give you the difference in lenght
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/01/1103:58 PM
I found a T45 from a 1998 Mustang GT. Is this the one I want? (I've
got a '97 Crown Vic Police Interceptor) I'm looking for the one that
doesn't need to be modified at all. Is this a direct bolt-on? (with a
civilian driveshaft?)
Which year and type (TKO, TR3650, etc.) will bolt directly in to my '97 police model?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/01/1107:00 PM
Originally Posted By: 2004_p71
Eiter a t-45 or 01 to 04 tremec tr-3650 will fit the question is wich one will last the longest.
the tr3650 is an updated version of the t45. it is stronger but not bullet proof.
if
you are planning on mother mods along the way i'd get an upgraded
version from americanpowertrain that goes for 1100$ and will take 430
lbs_tq
so, I don't have to modify the crossmember, etc. in
older vics with the 3650? (I had read that it was only the T45 which
would bolt right in and then only certain years and versions)
Thanks for the tip. I've found several upgraded versions. One T45 rated to 750ft-lbs at 8000rpm and several comparable TKO's.
Basically, I'm just looking for something that would be *mostly* plug and play.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/02/1106:12 PM
Quote:
so,
I don't have to modify the crossmember, etc. in older vics with the
3650? (I had read that it was only the T45 which would bolt right in and
then only certain years and versions)
Thanks for the tip. I've found several upgraded versions. One T45 rated to 750ft-lbs at 8000rpm and several comparable TKO's.
Basically, I'm just looking for something that would be *mostly* plug and play.
Well,
the modifications to the cross member are very minimal, you<ll have
to cut a bit of the part that bolts to the trans a little bit but it is
very easy to figure out, thats not at all the biggest issue of the
swap...
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/02/1108:21 PM
Originally Posted By: thejsx1
Quote:
so,
I don't have to modify the crossmember, etc. in older vics with the
3650? (I had read that it was only the T45 which would bolt right in and
then only certain years and versions)
Thanks for the tip. I've found several upgraded versions. One T45 rated to 750ft-lbs at 8000rpm and several comparable TKO's.
Basically, I'm just looking for something that would be *mostly* plug and play.
Well,
the modifications to the cross member are very minimal, you<ll have
to cut a bit of the part that bolts to the trans a little bit but it is
very easy to figure out, thats not at all the biggest issue of the
swap...
I notice you also have a '97. Would the T45 have been any more plug and play?
I am trying to get away with only drilling two extra holes: one through the firewall and one through the floorboard.
Did you go with mechanical clutch? (I have heard that mechanical clutches are much easier to install)
thejsx1, how did you do your pedal setup?
Thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/03/1101:41 PM
no matter if you get a t-45 or tremec tr3650 they are externaly the same so you will have to modify the crossmember anyways. He also has the cable clutch desing on his car pretty much based on the same pedal set-up than me
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/03/1105:49 PM
Originally Posted By: 2004_p71
no matter if you get a t-45 or tremec tr3650 they are externaly the same so you will have to modify the crossmember anyways. He also has the cable clutch desing on his car pretty much based on the same pedal set-up than me
Originally Posted By: 2004_p71
no matter if you get a t-45 or tremec tr3650 they are externaly the same so you will have to modify the crossmember anyways. He also has the cable clutch desing on his car pretty much based on the same pedal set-up than me
Originally Posted By: 2004_p71
no matter if you get a t-45 or tremec tr3650 they are externaly the same so you will have to modify the crossmember anyways. He also has the cable clutch desing on his car pretty much based on the same pedal set-up than me
Thanks for the info, 2004_P71. That clears up a lot!
It sounds like I should look for a TR-3650 with a mechanical speedometer and mechanical clutch?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/04/1108:32 PM
If you use a 96-98 GT T45 it would bolt up without crossmember
modifications if the crossmember is the same as a '93. The Cobra t45
rear mount different.
READ THIS from Modern Driveline:What's up with T-45 Transmissions?
Borg
Warner T-45 transmissions were only used behind 4.6L single and dual
over head Mustangs from 1996 to 1999. TREMEC, in 2000, replaced the
T-45 with the TR-3650 which is very similar in design. The T-45's
design is very much like the T-56 six speed transmissions. In fact the
T-45 and T-56 share many of the same parts. It has single rail gear
selector and carbon lined steel synchro rings making it a smooth
shifting transmission at high rpm's. The gears are larger and stronger
then a T-5 and about the same as a TREMEC 3550 in size. The T-45 is the
first transmission in the B/W -TREMEC lineup with a built-in bell
housing so it can not be exchanged. This limits the T-45 to 4.6L mod
motors as the bolt pattern is different than the Windsor push rod
motors.
T-45 from 1996-98 GT are different than the Cobra
Mustangs. The transmission mount point is moved further back for the
Cobras and as well as a 8 tooth drive speedometer gear. Cobra T-45's are
equipped with a 7 tooth speedo gear. In 1999 all T-45's were changed to
the Cobra specs. Why this was not done earlier is not understood.
T-45
shifters are the same as the T-5 shifter, therefore, any aftermarket
shifter will work on both transmissions. Borg Warner WC T-5/T-45/T-56
all use ATF oil or Synthetic ATF. No other oil should be used. Redline
MTL should not be used. Redline ATF is fine. My recommendation is to
use Amsoil ATF as I have used it for years at the track with great
results.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/05/1104:44 PM
Georges93LX, that was a very helpful post. Thanks. I have now found a
T-45 in good condition that I will rebuild in the future to accommodate
the extra power of any future mods.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/15/1112:33 AM
Good video. I'd say it was spot on.
I would like to
emphasize that the stock pedal box must be reinforced. I went through a
bunch of cables and a lot of welding, and rewelding because mine kept
flexing. It got to a point where it was binding and started pulling the
firewall in a bit. I reinforced the crap out of it and it's good
now...would've been better to get it right the first time.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/15/1107:14 PM
Great job! I didn't re-enforce my pedal box and I haven't had any
problems with it either. I also cut my pedal arms and rewelded them
which I know a lot of people would be against for fear of breakage.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/21/1106:17 PM
Originally Posted By: JohnnyB
Good video. I'd say it was spot on.
I
would like to emphasize that the stock pedal box must be reinforced. I
went through a bunch of cables and a lot of welding, and rewelding
because mine kept flexing. It got to a point where it was binding and
started pulling the firewall in a bit. I reinforced the crap out of it
and it's good now...would've been better to get it right the first time.
Great vid pier! I did reinforce my pedal box as well, because my first one collapsed under the weight of the clutch.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/09/1109:34 AM
Originally Posted By: bboelkp71
Any tricks to getting the top bolts out of the tranny? Am I able to pull it w/o taking the cats off?
As far as removing the automatic? The exhaust needs to come out. After you drop the crossmember piece (and remove the driveshaft) support the back of the trans and slowly lower the back down. You should be able to access the top bolts with a 4ft. extension and a 13mm swivel socket.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/11/1108:05 PM
The exhaust does not have to come out. If you remove the
wipers/motor/box assembly (easy to do) then you can reach the upper
trans bolts from the top. That's how I did it; no cat removal necessary.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/12/1112:34 PM
Originally Posted By: JohnnyB
The
exhaust does not have to come out. If you remove the wipers/motor/box
assembly (easy to do) then you can reach the upper trans bolts from the
top. That's how I did it; no cat removal necessary.
in
it,s case it is absolutly correct to state that no cat removal is
necessary since he owns a pre 2003 car but any car from 2003+ will
require this process remove the cross member transmission
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/19/1209:58 AM
Ok so I have a 99 crown Vic interceptor. Been reading all these post.
So I have a guy near me with 96-98 cobra parts. I was hoping to
purchase the trans, clutch, clutch plate basaclly every thing he's got
including drive shaft! But I seen something in here that says cobra
trans are diff??? Is this true? Or will this trans bolt right up. Really
looking forward to the winter project but I'm not sure about this.
Please someone help me before it gets sold.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/19/1210:09 AM
That transmission will bolt up to the engine. The only possible
difference is the overall length of the trans. Worst case is that
you'll need a driveshaft spacer.
The driveshaft for the cobra
will be too short, but you will need the slip-yoke from the mustang
driveshaft to put on your crown vic driveshaft.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/19/1211:54 AM
The nature of the custom-made pedals would make the clutch cable
position a little different for everyone. (Well, if Peir makes your
pedals your position might match his.) I positioned mine by getting the
pedals complete and in place, then I marked a spot on the firewall
directly in front of and level with the point on the clutch quadrant
where the cable will sit. My firewall adjuster leaves about 3/8"
clearance between the cable and the edges, so that leaves a little bit
of room for error with positioning. Also, there's no harm in oversizing
the hole, so long as there's still enough metal to have something for
the firewall adjuster to fasten to. I recall using a dremel tool to
widen the hole to fine-tune the position of the adjuster.
I
strongly advise that you remove the brake master cylinder and booster so
you can work from the engine side. I fought it for hours from the
interior before giving up and pulling the brake system out of the way. I
wish I would have started that way.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/19/1203:08 PM
Originally Posted By: walnutavenue
(Well, if Peir makes your pedals your position might match his.) I
positioned mine by getting the pedals complete and in place, then I
marked a spot on the firewall directly in front of and level with the
point on the clutch quadrant where the cable will sit. My firewall
adjuster leaves about 3/8" clearance between the cable and the edges, so
that leaves a little bit of room for error with positioning. Also,
there's no harm in oversizing the hole, so long as there's still enough
metal to have something for the firewall adjuster to fasten to. I
recall using a dremel tool to widen the hole to fine-tune the position
of the adjuster.
I strongly advise that you remove the brake
master cylinder and booster so you can work from the engine side. I
fought it for hours from the interior before giving up and pulling the
brake system out of the way. I wish I would have started that way.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/25/1206:09 PM
I'm having some trouble breaking the bolts free on the drive shaft. I
sprayed them with some pb blast tried a breaker bar. Did you guys use
an impact wrench? Maybe I will try that.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/25/1206:14 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
I'm
having some trouble breaking the bolts free on the drive shaft. I
sprayed them with some pb blast tried a breaker bar. Did you guys use an
impact wrench? Maybe I will try that.
you have to heat them a little bit to brake them free as it should have some red loctite on it
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/25/1206:20 PM
Very good. Thanks man for the quick reply. Figured I'd tear the
drive shaft and trans out. Just to be ready for when I go pick the new
one up. I'm Larry the guy who emailed you earlier in the week btw. You
do some great write ups. And the 5.4 Vic makes me so jealous lol. Nice
car man
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/25/1206:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Very
good. Thanks man for the quick reply. Figured I'd tear the drive
shaft and trans out. Just to be ready for when I go pick the new one
up. I'm Larry the guy who emailed you earlier in the week btw. You do
some great write ups. And the 5.4 Vic makes me so jealous lol. Nice
car man
oh lol yes I remember you now I just
replyed to your email saying that you would get faster answer from me on
cvn because i'm always here lol
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/26/1207:20 AM
What's the easiest way to go about dropping the trans. Just
disconnect all the harnesses then get the wipers and all that out of the
way? Or is it possible to leave all that and get the top bolts from
underneath.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/26/1202:53 PM
disconect everything and leave the harness on it. you can have acess to the two top bolt from underneath with extention. just be carefull to not strip any head with a missaligned socked
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 01/30/1204:08 PM
lol jk man
A
standard transmission doesn't fill in the same way as the 4R70W. And
the standard transmissions don't have a dipstick. The 5-speeds have a
drain plug on the bottom (TR3650) or kinda on the side on the bottom
(T45) and the fill is on the side of the case higher up.
There are no hoses that you'll be keeping. The transmission cooling lines will need to come out and the dipstick too.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/06/1209:12 AM
So from what read the stock clutch and flywheel will not work on our
cars? Is that correct. And why don't the work. Also if they don't work
whats a good site to look in to find what I need. Thanks
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/06/1202:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
So
from what read the stock clutch and flywheel will not work on our cars?
Is that correct. And why don't the work. Also if they don't work whats a
good site to look in to find what I need. Thanks
It will but it is not what you want to put.
The
point that i'm trying to make with all the threads regarding the 5
speed swap is that you have to think outside of the box for this swap. You
can put a stock t45 with a 10.5 clutch if you want it will fit and will
work for a period of time but forget durability ,reliability on stock
components when theses parts are installed on a 2tons+ car.
You
want to get the best parts available in the best condition available and
some parts just require to be bought new like the flywheel
,clutch/pressure plate. Centerforce makes a soft combo that will work very well on stock to modified cars while being soft and not hard on the left leg. Anything
like ram, mcleod,spec powergrip will offer more gripping capacity but
the pressure plate will be harder to disengage that is the price to pay. You may look at summitracing.com or any mustang oriented site that sells parts for the stangs.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/10/1205:17 PM
Ok so I got the new trans. But here's my problems. I got the cobra
trans so the cross member mount is further back. No big deal. But the
flywheel it came with was a 8 hole. I need a six hole. So what should I
do. Buy a whole clutch setup w/ flywheel from center force. If someone
can chime in with a link to the one I need. Thanks
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/10/1206:24 PM
I ask napa for a 6 bolt flywheel they say there is only 8 bolt for
mustang. They said they do have a f150 that's 6 bolt but its for an 11
inch clutch I think. Could I use that with the clutch I got or no?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/10/1211:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
I
ask napa for a 6 bolt flywheel they say there is only 8 bolt for
mustang. They said they do have a f150 that's 6 bolt but its for an 11
inch clutch I think. Could I use that with the clutch I got or no?
one
particular year the mustang had a windsor engine that has 8 bolts but
if you ask a dealer or check ebay you will find plenty of 6 bolts
flywheel
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/12/1211:54 PM
Can someone explain what the electrical plugs are on manual trans?
Automatic had three electric harness and then the neutral safety switch
attached to the shift cable shaft. Manual has one electric harness and
two threaded Connections. I don't know what they are. Anyone who can
explain the two would help me out. I ordered up the 6 hole flywheel with
10.5 clutch to match the one I have. Cut the hole for the shifter.
re-welder my crossmember to fit the trans mounts. Almost ready to get
this Going.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/13/1207:30 AM
Along with the wiring I have another question. I bought the trans it
didn't come with a seperator plate or dust shield thing. Do I use the
original or will that one not work? Just curious
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/13/1209:34 AM
What needs to be done to make the one I have work? Is the difference
the flywheel. Since the automatic flywheel had a curve shape. the
seperator plate never touched it. With the manual the fly wheel is more
flat so it would rub I'm guessing. So i would need to cut that portion
out I'm guessing???
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/13/1210:20 AM
Thanks a lot nick. That helps a bunch. Its not letting me open the
link it just brings me to eBayobile on my phone. I'll check it out after
work. Thanks for the pics it's nice to see side by side like that.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/14/1207:53 AM
Flywheel should be here tomorrow. Pedals shortly afterwards. I'm
still curious as how to wire up the reverse lights. And what to do with
the neutral position sensor. Think I read somewhere you can leave it
in. Set it to neutral and the car can be started. If anyone knows the
correct way please fill me in. Thanks
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/14/1207:57 AM
And for the clutch I need a cable, clutch quadrant and firewall
adjustment right? I have a big bbk clutch quadrant and firewall
adjustment but no cable. 96-04 cables should work fine?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/14/1210:23 AM
My pedals were from a V6. I can't say they're exactly the same as a V8, but they work fine.
And
regarding the neutral sensor; mine is zip-tied to the transmission and
set to neutral as you described. I'm not sure if Lonnie's tune makes
that unnecessary, and I could remove it completely. I've never checked
because everything works fine as is.
Also, I'm one of the people
who cut the auto-trans plate instead of getting a manual one. Sadly, I
don't have a picture of what it cut, but it's easy to slide it on and
off with the flywheel in place... so trial and error is the simple
solution. At the time I couldn't find a manual-trans plate very cheap,
which I why I modified one. If you can get one for 20$ like Nick did...
I'd go that route. Even though you can't see it, it's nice to know you
have the right part instead of a hacked up wrong part that works.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/14/1204:31 PM
What hump on the under carafe needs to be hacked for the trans to fit
correctly. I haven't put mine in with the cross member in place yet.
Just wondering.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/14/1206:48 PM
you have the OSS (for the speedo) and the back up light switch that need to be hooked up the
N safety switch that I just hard wired together so the computer thinks
it is in N all the time so you can start it but to pass an inspection
you many have to hook up a clutch safety switch to the pedals. most
of the things you would think are wiring problems are in the tune
telling the PCM not to look for auto trans sensors. for instance if the
computer doesnt see a trans temp sensor it kicks the engine cooling fans
on. if you have an 04 I can get you the wire colours that you need to use to make it run
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/15/1206:13 PM
Ok I got the flywheel In. Is there anything I should know before
putting the clutch in. I don't know anything about these. Do I tighten
the bolts to a certain torque spec. If someone could explain this.
Thanks
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/16/1207:54 AM
Foursome reason the trans won't slide in the last bit. It's right up
to the flywheel but last night I couldn't get it to go the last
centimeter. To slide on the guide pins. Does it need a little force to
slide in the pilot bearing maybe put a few bolts in spin the evenly see
if it pulls it together???
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/16/1210:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Does
it need a little force to slide in the pilot bearing maybe put a few
bolts in spin the evenly see if it pulls it together???
Don't
try to force it together by tightening the bolts, because you risk
breaking whatever the obstruction is. If you're getting down to the
last centimeter, the splines of the input shaft are already into the
clutch... so the problem is probably the tip of the input shaft not
aligning with the pilot bearing (as you guessed). Try supporting the
transmission in the center with a floor jack, then gently pulling down
on the tail end of the transmission and/or rocking it side to side, all
while pushing forward so that when the alignment is right it slides
home. There isn't really a perfect method, you just have to wiggle the
transmission until you get lucky.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/16/1208:45 PM
Still not getting it to go in properly. I tightened the pressure
plate bolts to 18-22 like I read on another forum. Wiggled the crap out
of it. I had it on there with out the bearing and flywheel and clutch
on it. Slide on just fine. Now just can't seem to get it with
everything else on.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/16/1210:06 PM
No I don't have one. I figured it would be easy to line up by
matching the disc to the pressure plate. I stuck my fingers threw the
side then held it in place while tightening the bolts. Which I mean
it's lined up pretty f'ing good. Now I got it wiggled in pretty close.
But it's still not sliding in with ease so... I'm thinking hand tighten
the bolt wiggle the trans around see if it pushes forward a bit. Hand
tighten the ahgain wiggle it. And so on see If it slowly works its way
in.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/16/1211:59 PM
Alright.
You certainly need a clutch alignment tool. I almost
guarantee your off by a little bit. It's nearly impossible to hold the
pressure plate, clutch disc and tighten the bolts at the same time.
And where did you get twenty-two foot pounds from? It's actually thirty-three plus an additional sixty degrees. I tightened mine to thirty-three foot pounds and gave them another little tug and called it done.
Torque specs for the flywheel also:
Also did you install the throwout bearing propperly? It's easy to mess those up if it's your first time.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/17/1207:33 AM
I installed the pilot bearing by pressing by hand a little just to
get it to stick the put a socket over the top and tapped it in flush.
I'm going to get the tool after work it's got to be the bearing holding
me back. Before I put the clutch and bearing on the trans slide on no
problem. I only work till noon today so I'll mess with it when I get
off work. Hopefully I can get it in today.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/17/1209:19 AM
I'm guessig that for $2.22 the alignment tool Nick referred to is a
simple plastic piece that matches the shape of the input shaft, and not a
steel one.
The plastic ones work fine, but in my experience they
always align the clutch a little bit low because the tool itself
doesn't fit tight enough in the pilot bearing. To put it another way;
when you hang the clutch assembly on the alignment tool, all that weight
bends it down some. So as you're tightening the bolts, try to hold the
end of the alignment tool up a little to negate the amount the clutch
pulls it down.
There are better alignment tools out there, but
unless you're going to replace a lot of clutches I don't think they're
worth it. Good luck!
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/17/1210:25 AM
Originally Posted By: NGreen0807
^^ your absolutely right.
I was referring to the plastic tool. They do the job in a pinch.
This is the metal tool for anyone interested:
usualy they comes with the clutch and pressure plate when you buy a set.
I bought a steel one and never really had this type of problem
As nick mentioned you cant assume that the clutch is center to center with the rest. As
for tightening bolts on the trans be extremely careful on this as you
may either brake the block or at best strip some threads
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/17/1201:01 PM
When I bought my clutch/pressure plate it didnt come with one so that
why I end up with the tool that was around 40$ with many bushings.
There
are plenty of parts I would not buy used when doing a manual swap
because you are never absolutly sure of the condition till you get the
parts in hand and even worst like it unfortunatly happened to osmossis
you end up with a useless trans.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/18/1209:41 PM
never pull a trans on with the bolts not even a little bit if you get it close you can depress the pedal to free the disc up and it might align itself the rest of the way a
friend killed my super T10 by not seating the pilot bearing deep enough
and he pulled the trans with the bolts that last little bit which pushed the input shaft into the mainshaft preloading it
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/18/1210:45 PM
Well got the trans in
i need some pedals a drive shaft spacer and a new cross member and she
will be on the road hopefully. I have both pedal assemblies Vic and
mustang. But not looking forward to modding them. Pier you will be
receiving a pm from me. I need the hook up lol I have a bbk quadrant I
could send you too instead of the stock one. It's going to take me
awhile to finish this so I'm in no hurry to get them back. I need to
call Lonnie still I don't know how long that takes to get the tune and
all. Can't wait to be done with this little project.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/19/1201:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Pier you will be receiving a pm from me.
I need to call Lonnie still I don't know how long that takes to get the
tune and all. Can't wait to be done with this little project.
great man I'll be making a set for you
as for lonnie it all depends if he is really busy but his service is top notch
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/21/1204:53 PM
Does anyone know where this cable goes. When I pulled the trans
there was a flat cable looks like maybe a ground cable that just has two
clips? like it just slides onto whatever it's for. but when I pulled
it one side wasn't connected an I didn't pay much to it when I pulled it
out.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/21/1207:58 PM
Braided steel cable with clips on each end? Its a grounding strap for
sure. On my 2000 there is a flat part of the frame on the RH side next
to the transmission it connects to and the other end goes on the webbing
somewhere on the engine block. I think anyway but Im too lazy to go
jack up my car.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/21/1209:57 PM
Yeah it deff a ground of some sort. It was clip to the frame I think
but the other end was just tucked in not clipped to nothing. Was just
curious as to it's correct position. oh well worry about that later.
It's time to make a crossmember. or have a few beers and come up with some ideas at least.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/22/1207:56 AM
Yeah I have a whole diff nightmare lol I bought a cobra trans and the
trans mount is further back. So I have to figure out a whole new
crossmember. I tried just to flip the bracket to the other side of the
cross member. just tacked it on to see if it would work. Not going to.
the holes line up right above the cross member not in line with the
bracket. So now I'm going to have to make a whole new one. Just some
work while I'm waiting for some pedals
I was thinking just some nice square metal stock to custom make a
crossmember. Do you know if I were to make my own how I would level the
trans so that the drive shaft say right? Would I have to sit the car
level. Then use a 3 ft level on the drive shaft to get it pretty close.
Never had to do any of this before.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/22/1208:00 AM
I know on big trucks they go threw U joints like crazy because the
drive shaft being so much on an angle. But in this case would it really
be that much of an issue.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 02/22/1209:14 AM
Originally Posted By: NGreen0807
It's actually thirty-three plus
an additional sixty degrees. I tightened mine to thirty-three foot
pounds and gave them another little tug and called it done.
For jobs like this(and head bolts, etc.) you really should use a torque angle meter:
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/05/1207:01 PM
So do I need to plug these old trans lines, pull them all out, or
leave them sit? And should I leave the wipers and wiper motor out? For
room to get the cable and firewall adjuster in. Or is taking the brake
cylinder thing out more than enough room to do all that?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1209:32 AM
I cut the lines to the trans cooler close to the cooler itself and
haven't done anything with them. If you want to keep the inside of the
cooler clean for the sake of re-use or resale, it would probably be wise
to plug the lines.
I left the wipers in and pulled the master
cylinder out. That gave enough room to work on the firewall, and I was
able to reach the top bolts on the bellhousing without too much cursing.
However, mine is an aero instead of a whale... I'm not sure how much
difference that makes regarding the position of the wiper assembly.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1210:28 AM
Word of advice here. Unbolt the master from the booster. And when you
have the pedals out the booster will be free. You can carefully pull
the master to the side and remove just the booster to give you room to
make your holes.
Leave the master cylinder attached so you don't have to bleed all the lines.
GSDNH
actually gave me that idea. And it saved me a bunch of trouble. I work
alone and bleeding brakes can be a pain by yourself.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1212:49 PM
Originally Posted By: NGreen0807
Word
of advice here. Unbolt the master from the booster. And when you have
the pedals out the booster will be free. You can carefully pull the
master to the side and remove just the booster to give you room to make
your holes.
Leave the master cylinder attached so you don't have to bleed all the lines.
I wish I had thought of that... On the plus side, my son is getting lots of practice as my 'pedal man' for bleeding brakes.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1201:22 PM
Ok thanks guys I'll put the wiper back together today I took them out
to get the top bolts on the trans. I don't have a huge Selection of
tools. A huge extension being one of them. An the wipers weren't to bad.
Just have to remember how they go back. Lol thanks for the info
ngreen0807 that will come in handy.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1201:53 PM
I took everything off when i did it just for the ease...wipers takes
abouth 5 min so no big deal here and you have better acess to the two
top trans bolt instead of using extention and joint from underneat
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1210:22 PM
Expect to run into more snags as you progress.
I had to push my deadline back a month because I wouldn't be ready and I refuse to ghetto my car.
Your gonna love it when your finished
I
don't know what your doing for the interior but that's the slow part if
you wanna make it look factory. I had all the mechanical stuff done it a
weekend but it's little things like wiring that take time to do well.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/06/1210:51 PM
Still on my list- pedals- clutch cable- tune- drive shaft spacer-
tach- order a few of those thing this week. Few more next week and hope
to have it on the road in a month or so.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/07/1206:34 AM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Still
on my list- pedals- clutch cable- tune- drive shaft spacer- tach- order
a few of those thing this week. Few more next week and hope to have it
on the road in a month or so.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/07/1210:16 AM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
I know I went cheap. Should have got the step up.
eh...
don't say 'cheap' like it's a bad thing. Going 'expensive' is
pointless if it way surpasses your needs. Look at the example set by
Cameron; he used a stock bottom end, stock transmission, and stock rear
axles... and is faster than virtually everyone. The skeptics said (or
thought) that he was taking the 'cheap' route, and that all those stock
parts would fail. Who's laughing now?
If you don't mod the
engine too much, shift smooth, and don't use too sticky of tires you
should be able to drive the car plenty hard for a long time without
issues. As it stands now, the extra strength of the TR 3650 is totally
wasted in my car. I should have used a T45 and saved a few hundred
bucks.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/07/1201:01 PM
Yeah I'm not racing the thing it was more for the project aspect. So
far I've learned a lot and had fun so. I'm happy. Just can't wait to
actually drive the thing. Lol
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/16/1207:47 AM
I sure wish they sold a driveshaft spacer for our cars Did you guys use a normal mustang clutch cable? And should I buy an act tuner used? or new from Lonnie with the tune?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/16/1209:23 AM
Yes to the mustang clutch cable. I've heard horror stories about
aftermarket ones, and emphasis that everyone should use a ford OEM
cable... but I've had no problem with my aftermarket cable. Also,
remember to lubricate it well.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/16/1201:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
I sure wish they sold a driveshaft spacer for our cars Did you guys use a normal mustang clutch cable? And should I buy an act tuner used? or new from Lonnie with the tune?
spacer were only made for the mustangs guys with smaller pinion flange. I did mine out of another crown vic pinion flange by getting the center machined so it fits on the other pinion.
As far as the cable I have been using oem since they one and I would not use anything else either
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/17/1211:16 AM
heres some info abouth the spacer
it is made out of another crown vic pinion flange. The ID was machined at 2.000 to fit over.
The two pinion flanged surface should be clean of any debrits to ensure flat,parallel surface to avoid any driveline vibrations. I drilled 4 holes into the flange to be able to screw extented bolts from the drive shaft flange to the original pinion flange. Grade 8 bolts recomended.
I have used this spacer on my 98 P71 With a steel civilian drive shaft during off road purposes
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/23/1201:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Clutch cable and pinion flange came yesterday. So I'll let you know how the spacer turns out. I'll take a picture.
great
remember
that you have to get the two contact surgace parallel otherwise you
will have major problem.You can always get the surface machined so they
patch perfectly
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/23/1202:51 PM
Ok I'll have to see what the one on my car looks like. I never
pulled it off. Hope I can just clean it maybe use some sand paper to
clean the surface. Otherwise I'll have to pull it and put it on the
lathe.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/23/1202:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Ok
I'll have to see what the one on my car looks like. I never pulled it
off. Hope I can just clean it maybe use some sand paper to clean the
surface. Otherwise I'll have to pull it and put it on the lathe.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/25/1211:49 PM
It looks great pier. I posted a pic on cvn group on Facebook. But
that wasidway to being finished I forgot to take a pic of finished
product I was anxious to put it on the car. But that was a great idea
an worked well. Thanks a lot
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/25/1211:49 PM
on that spacer, why doesnt it have the center index that locates the driveshaft on it? is that a pressed in piece on the OEM flange that could be trasnfered to the spacer? it really is an important part of the flange
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 03/26/1206:14 AM
the machinist will use a bouring bar to keep the center index on it
unlike what I did but fro what I did with since it was going on my off
road race car I could not care less lol
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/09/1207:50 AM
Pedals should be here today
super excited to get home and check them out. Possible put them in
today. What fluids does every one run in there t-45? I'm new to the
whole manual Trans so I have no idea. Thanks
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/09/1208:23 AM
Ok thanks nick. Hopefully I can Get the pedals in and fluid changed
tonight. I'll pick the fluid up after work. And refresh my memory a
bit on here about drilling the hole in the firewall.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/09/1211:54 PM
Ok so I'm officially driving a manual crown Victoria.
took it to the gas station just now. Almost killed it pulling out.
Only go it up to third gear but loving it already. Pier those pedals
worked out perfect. You are THE MAN!! Broke the micro switch putting
them in. Lol but brake lights can wait till tomorrow. Now I can't wait
for the tune. But everything feels good so I'm happy. I'll make a
video tomorrow show you guys how she runs. And take a few pictures.
Thanks everyone or the help.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1212:21 AM
Ok so here it is. I cut the almost killing it part out. But don't be
laughing at my driving skill. I've never drove stick. And don't mind
the wind. I don't have the floor sealed and windows are down a bit.
And lol at the end where I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. Stop
the car..... Think.... Shifter in neutral... Check.... Think a bit
more... Check to make sure column shifter is in park even though it's
inoperable. Yup still in park. Hahaha Its gonna take some getting use
to. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUWLdYryGCk took it off my phone so it's not the best and it's dark outside.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1212:23 AM
Most I've ever done to a car before this was oil changes spark plugs
wires a that. This is the biggest project I've ever done by my self.
Pretty happy just to drive it again.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1206:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Ok so I'm officially driving a manual crown Victoria.
took it to the gas station just now. Almost killed it pulling out.
Only go it up to third gear but loving it already. Pier those pedals
worked out perfect. You are THE MAN!! Broke the micro switch putting
them in. Lol but brake lights can wait till tomorrow. Now I can't wait
for the tune. But everything feels good so I'm happy. I'll make a
video tomorrow show you guys how she runs. And take a few pictures.
Thanks everyone or the help.
wow man IM really glad for you. You did it and I can tell that you will really enjoy driving a 5 speed manual crown vic as for the micro switch i'll send you another one if you are not in a hurry
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1208:06 AM
Don't use the e brake if it's never been used before. Lol damn thing locked up On
me this morning. And pier don't worry about the micro switch I'm sure I
can find one like it that will work. Should have taken it off before
trying to stuff the pedals up in there. I didn't take your advice and
remove the steering colomn. My fault for not taking your advice. Think
I need to adjust my cable a bit more too. so lunch break will consist
of getting the e brake free and adjusting the cable a bit tighter.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1208:12 AM
Cool man that's awesome
I didn't take the column out either. It's really very easy to get the pedals up there if you take the quardrant off.
If
you have any questions on wiring for a more complete install
(Transmission range sensor, reverse lights, ect.) let me know. I'm
compiling information to post on here but I may be able to help out in
the meantime.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1208:40 AM
My pedals were not to easy to get in there. It was a bit tight. But
it's in. And thanks nick I'll keep a close eye to your post. Watch for
the wiring process. Transmission range sensor don't know what that is.
Lol I'm a noob. And reverse lights? I didn't have them before the swap
so I'm not to worried about them. But I'd still like to see how
everything get wired up correct. So that it only starts with clutch
depressed and stuff.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1209:29 AM
The Transmission range sensor, or MLPS, is a sensor on the shaft of
the shift lever on the automatic transmission. It contains the neutral
safety switch, which will only let the car start in park or neutral.
The
standard cars use a CSS, or clutch safety switch on the clutch pedal,
requiring you to depress the clutch pedal or else the car won't start. W/PK
wire from ignition switch goes to one side of the clutch pedal, the
other side of the clutch pedal is a R/LB wire that goes to the starter
solenoid. Usually these two wires are inside the automatic trans harness
and MLPS.
The automatic trans harness may contain O2 sensor
wiring, but you can remove the harness and diet it down, removing any
circuits that you don't need.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1210:50 AM
Ok so now my clutch or flywheel is making a noise when I release it.
Even in neutral I just let the clutch out and the car will die.
Thinking I F'ed up somewhere. I'll post a video link. It's not
killing the car now but it did before.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1202:05 PM
I'll just have to jack it up after work start tearing it apart I just hope It's
nothing wrong with the Trans. It seem to be going just fine. Till the
ebrake stuck on me. I'll let you know what I come up with later on
tonight. Hopefully just fork and ball was bad and I didn't notice or
something not fastened down right.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1202:38 PM
that is weird never heard that before. At first I thought you were talking abouth the plate that is betewen the block and trans that was rubbing on the flywheel.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1206:50 PM
Don't think it was my ebrake sticking its my front break sticking
after they get hot must be from sitting for so long. The pistons aren't
releasing or something. Grease the pins and compress them? Try them
Again maybe? Lol problem after problem. Well once I can get it back
in the garage I'll let you guys know what I comeup with. Hope the Trans
is ok.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1208:30 PM
Thinking maybe it's the pedals not coming up far enough. And the
pads are rubbing. I just tried to get it home every brake is hot and
smoking a little. I'm not sure but that's what I'm thinking.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1209:15 PM
Yes but the brakes were keeping me from getting the car home. Lol I
disconnected them got it on the garage now. I'll take a look in the
morning. But something is wrong there. Pedals are pressing just enough
on the push rod to make them rub and burn till the point if I press the
clutch in the car slows down. As for the noise I'm going to have to
pull the Trans. I'm just happy it's home now. I can actually pull it
apart.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/10/1209:18 PM
Brakes I can prolly grind a bit more of a cut in the assembly to let
them sit higher. Or relocate the shaft on the pedal assembly it self.
All can wait till tomorrow. I'm done for tonight. Maybe jack it up
take a peak that's about it. I'm beat and it's dinner time.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1205:51 AM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Thinking
maybe it's the pedals not coming up far enough. And the pads are
rubbing. I just tried to get it home every brake is hot and smoking a
little. I'm not sure but that's what I'm thinking.
What do you mean by pedal is rubbing?
how is the the tension on the cable? how far can you push the pedal once the clutch is disengaged?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1206:35 AM
I think the brake pedal isn't coming up far enough. And holding a
little pressure on the brakes. After driving for a minute the brakes
get hot. The clutch is working fine. there it feels all good. Like I
said I'll take a look today after work. But I pulled the brake shaft
off the pedal asembly and the brakes did not lock up. I'll get it All
worked out. Just going to take a bit of time that's all.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1210:53 AM
Nick you my friend are a savior. I don't remember the spacer so maybe
it was attached to the pedals. But I see a pic of your with the pedals
out and clearly see the spacer. Could be in the garage some where or
maybe it's still stuck to the assembly. Thanks a lot nick. That's got
to be my brake problem. Either find the spacer or junk yard one if I
can't find the one off my car. I'm going to drop the Trans after work
check that whole thing out see what I [censored] up or what I did wrong
at least.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1202:31 PM
I was too excited I guess
[censored] well that's one problem down lets hope I didn't fark up the
Trans now. More I read. it sound like input shaft bearing. But I'm
keeping my fingers crossed. She was going so good, no sounds,shifting
good. Damn spacer! Should have taken my time and a mental note of that
spacer before putting it back together.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1205:12 PM
Well just disconnected the clutch cable. No more rattle in the
Trans. So it's something to do with the fork or bearing. Bearing is
new. I read online your supposed to grease the fork where it snap to
the ball on the Trans and where it connects to the bearing. Im guessing
that's my problem I never grease them. Someone said with no grease an
the cable tension not tight enough the fork will start to dance on the
bearing an ball. Maybe after I drive around the cable tension loosened
up a bit. There for cause my fork to rattle. Or can a fork be bad?
-larry
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1205:25 PM
Pier if you could send me the spacer that would be great. Maybe a
micro switch too(maybe I can keep this micro in one piece lol). If you
need $ let me know. Don't let my mess up cost you. Thanks a lot man. I
must have lost my spacer some time during the swap. I can't seem to
find that thing anywhere. I'm looking everywhere just don't see it.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 04/11/1206:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
Pier
if you could send me the spacer that would be great. Maybe a micro
switch too(maybe I can keep this micro in one piece lol). If you need $
let me know. Don't let my mess up cost you. Thanks a lot man. I must
have lost my spacer some time during the swap. I can't seem to find
that thing anywhere. I'm looking everywhere just don't see it.
Also,
for those that did this swap, is there an actual breakdown of parts
that are required for this swap? I am pretty much lost when it comes to
working on 5 speeds.
What all would you need to put one of these in a car?
The
obvious parts are self explanatory. Tranny, clutch, flywheel, pedal
assembly, shifter. What about all the small bits and pieces?
I am seriously contemplating shelving my auto rebuild and going with 5 speed.
If you use TR3650 slip yoke, do you still need a spacer?
As
far as the pedals go, I know the clutch pedal has to be longer than the
brake due to the fuse box. Is it possible to extend the brake pedal to
make it the same length or would it be too long and hit the floor board?
Also,
for those that did this swap, is there an actual breakdown of parts
that are required for this swap? I am pretty much lost when it comes to
working on 5 speeds.
What all would you need to put one of these in a car?
The
obvious parts are self explanatory. Tranny, clutch, flywheel, pedal
assembly, shifter. What about all the small bits and pieces?
I am seriously contemplating shelving my auto rebuild and going with 5 speed.
If you use TR3650 slip yoke, do you still need a spacer?
As
far as the pedals go, I know the clutch pedal has to be longer than the
brake due to the fuse box. Is it possible to extend the brake pedal to
make it the same length or would it be too long and hit the floor board?
Yes
that is the seller I am referring to. I know of a few people who have
bought transmissions from them and they have all been great.
As
far as a parts breakdown is concerned I do have every part I used
written down complete with part numbers and such. If your interested I
will post it later today for you. I've also compiled all the wiring
information associated with the swap.
If you use a TR3650 and
the correct 31 spline slip yoke with an aluminum or MMX driveshaft you
will not need to use a spacer of any sorts.
As far as the pedals are concerned Pier will have to answer that. I am not sure.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1202:44 PM
I do have a list of parts with ford part numbers in my 5 speed write
up but It might now be as complete as Nick,s list as mine dates from few
year back.
As for the pedal serge The lenght difference is really not noticeable whe nyou drive. The position of the pedal is a compromise. If
it,s too long it will toutch the floor board before the clutch
disengage. and if it,s too short the effort to press the clutch will be
anything but easy. I bought my first trans of manstrans and blew it doing stupid burnouts. Go see my sticky in the hi po section regarding which trans would be the best.
drive shaft spacer is needed when using t-45 only. is this for the 03 or the merk serge?
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1205:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Vic99P71
What's wrong with the ten spline input shaft pier? Why is this such a big deal?
It,s alright for stock or mild application. In
fact if you dont do any drag racing you might get away with it but it
all depends the way you drive the car and what gears you run in the
diff.
10 spline imput shaft can twist during hard launch with
slicks and I consider myself lucky with my last session at the drag
because I have been dumping the clutch few times in the 5k rpms. wh 26
spline can take more abuse in this situation
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1205:57 PM
See, my car is more of a hot street, very occasional strip car.
Even
with the work I have done I think I'll be fine because I don't run
slicks on the street and I won't be getting anywhere near enough
traction off the line to twist the input shaft. It'll be spin-city
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1206:03 PM
Originally Posted By: NGreen0807
See, my car is more of a hot street, very occasional strip car.
Even
with the work I have done I think I'll be fine because I don't run
slicks on the street and I won't be getting anywhere near enough
traction off the line to twist the input shaft. It'll be spin-city
oh yeah you will never have any problem with this. IT's some launch like this that twist imput shaft after a while
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1206:31 PM
Originally Posted By: BigNSlow
How hard is that shaft to swap out? Gotta take the whole tranny apart I take? Were there any TR3650s with 26 spline shaft?
I'm paying to get it done localy. The
same guy from who I bought leadfoot's transmission for his car will
swap the imput shaft for me it,s a 700$ option in my case because I
didnt order my trans like that at first but anyone that gets a
trasmission like that can order it with that option and pay 400$/500$ at
max for a 26 spline shaft
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/13/1206:32 PM
Originally Posted By: pantera77
That's why I'm glad I have such crappy tires out back. That way my poor little weak t5 won't explode
yeah tires act like a fuse but when you want to drag race it,s another story. the t-5 in the 89 with a 351 did rather well but I never drag raced the car
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/14/1207:32 AM
In my t45 my first gear was really short. How is it with the tr3650
I'd think about the same right. If so is there anyway they can like
change a gear or something make it a bit longer? Or do you just have to
get used to it.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/14/1211:10 AM
Originally Posted By: BigNSlow
What all would you need to put one of these in a car?
The
obvious parts are self explanatory. Tranny, clutch, flywheel, pedal
assembly, shifter. What about all the small bits and pieces?
If you use TR3650 slip yoke, do you still need a spacer?
As
far as the pedals go, I know the clutch pedal has to be longer than the
brake due to the fuse box. Is it possible to extend the brake pedal to
make it the same length or would it be too long and hit the floor board?
I'd add universal joints to the parts list,
since you have to swap out the slip yoke anyway. Also, you might have
to replace the auto-trans block plate with a manual-trans one... or trim
the auto-trans one for clearance around the flywheel. Some people have
clearance problems and some don't.
You'll need to make some
modifications to the crossmember to move the transmission mount back. I
did this by drilling new holes in the ends of the crossmember to move
the whole thing back about 1", or it could be done by elongating holes
at the center to move just the mount. Either way, it ends up being a
fairly simple change.
I assume you'll need a speedcal to convert the OSS signal for your PCM. If so, here's the info: InstallInstructionsCalculator Note that you will need the 'extended range' speedcal, but that seems to be the only one that people sell anymore.
For my swap, those issues were the only things that came as any surprise. Everything else stuck to Peir's descriptions.
I
didn't use the driveshaft spacer, and haven't had any driveline
vibrations or other problems. I expect that on a higher horsepower car
with lots of traction every bit of engagement length of the slip yoke
would be critical, but if Peir hasn't had a problem with his high-rpm
launches... I think we're all safe to go without the spacer.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/17/1210:19 PM
This thread is really cool.
I know the output shafts are the
weak link even in the Cobra T-56. It's one of the first mods they do. A
3650 is definitely stronger than a T-45, but don't forget most
transmissions can be built to be bulletproof, depending on your budget
lol.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/21/1201:54 PM
Brake lights are good
will me speed-o be right with the tr3650? With the t45 I think it was
correct. If they are different can I just swap the plastic speed o
sensor or plug thing. Or is it the gear inside the Trans that is
different.
Re: The official manual transmission swap - 05/21/1203:21 PM
The TR 3650 doesn't have a speedo gear; it uses only the OSS sensor.
The signal from the OSS sensor will make your speedometer read waaay
high if you connect it directly. To convert/adjust the signal as
needed, you'll need a Speedcal from (among other sources) Blue Oval
Chips.
.
to cvn
lol jk man
